My newest toy

[Sargoth]

SOOOOO much easier than carrying around a book to read on breaks/lunch etc.

Fits right in my dayplanner pocket.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00154JDAI/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=3254143881&ref=pd_sl_177pa6cuyf_e

[GameGeeks]

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6YglzqqYcQ&feature=PlayList&p=5D752057859090D5&index=5) about it.

[Sargoth]

Ummmm...ok?

[tatsuya1221]

I hate the kindle, it reminds me that we're this close to losing freedom of speech.

that and i fear actual books will die.

[GameGeeks]

The vid was suposed to be funny. As for the kindle, I can fall asleep with a paperback but I couldn't really do that with a piece of hardware. Plus I like seeing bookshelves full of books you've collected and read over the years.

[Sargoth]

I hate the kindle, it reminds me that we're this close to losing freedom of speech.

that and i fear actual books will die.

How exactly does the Kindle alter freedom of speech?

[tatsuya1221]

How exactly does the Kindle alter freedom of speech?

For now it doesn't, but let's say it becomes the most common media for the u.s., anyone who wanted any type of literary work published would have to go through a rights process if a government got all surpress the people.

[Sargoth]

Uh huh.....

So anything that changes the medium away from print on paper is bad then?

Text file or PDF really isn't that new of a concept. I believe the opposite. I believe if it were to become the dominate means of media for the written word that it would be much easier for writers to be published. There would be less expense for the publishers. They would only need to maintain a digital copy of the original work without needing to publish thousands of copies of books. Far less lay out on their part allows for more people who may have been denied before to be published. Not to mention the fact you can get newspapers, magazines, blogs, etc on the thing as well. Effectively only eliminating the paper itself....

I'm sorry, I don't grasp where your position is based.

[tatsuya1221]

Uh huh.....

So anything that changes the medium away from print on paper is bad then?

Text file or PDF really isn't that new of a concept. I believe the opposite. I believe if it were to become the dominate means of media for the written word that it would be much easier for writers to be published. There would be less expense for the publishers. They would only need to maintain a digital copy of the original work without needing to publish thousands of copies of books. Far less lay out on their part allows for more people who may have been denied before to be published. Not to mention the fact you can get newspapers, magazines, blogs, etc on the thing as well. Effectively only eliminating the paper itself....

I'm sorry, I don't grasp where your position is based.

Kindle cannot be altered, what that means is that the company controls what you read, if that takes off i see the end of true free speech in written media.

[GameGeeks]

Treat it like steam, if you don't have access to the internet you don't have access to the game. One of the reasons I hate steam.

[Sargoth]

Tat,
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. What you are describing is no different that what is currently done in every news room and publishing house around the world. Kindle is just a medium. No different than a book, a computer, a PDA, or a cellphone. If you honestly believe what gets published isn't filtered already you really don't know much about the publishing business. That is what an editor does, filter out what he or she doesn't think will make money.

Oh, and the kindle copy can be altered. It allows you to scribe your own notes, footnotes, etc. very similar to writing in the margins of any other book. It is the digital original stored by the company that serves as a constant. Once you download it, it is yours to do what you like with it.

GG,

As far as steam goes...if you have cellphone signal, you can download. The bandwidth cost is part of the purchase price. It operates off the 3g network from Sprint. There is no fees or minutes. If you buy a book, part of the purchase price goes toward paying for the connection. The book is downloaded to the Kindle, not read online. They maintain an account list with you so you can redownload anything you bought at any time. There are no hidden fees or terms here. You buy a book, the device connects, downloads your purchase, and it's yours forever, just as if you had bought the book. If you got a new device, accidentally deleted a book, whatever, you just go to your account and redownload it for free.

[supermanman]

I for one think that its a cool toy. how is the book selection online? are there many titles?

[Sargoth]

I think they are up to about 300k titles for books plus most major magazines and newspapers.

Basically look up a book on Amazon and scroll down on the formats...Kindle is one of the formats listed.

[Kameo]

Tat,
I think we will just have to agree to disagree. What you are describing is no different that what is currently done in every news room and publishing house around the world. Kindle is just a medium. No different than a book, a computer, a PDA, or a cellphone. If you honestly believe what gets published isn't filtered already you really don't know much about the publishing business. That is what an editor does, filter out what he or she doesn't think will make money.

Oh, and the kindle copy can be altered. It allows you to scribe your own notes, footnotes, etc. very similar to writing in the margins of any other book. It is the digital original stored by the company that serves as a constant. Once you download it, it is yours to do what you like with it.

GG,

As far as steam goes...if you have cellphone signal, you can download. The bandwidth cost is part of the purchase price. It operates off the 3g network from Sprint. There is no fees or minutes. If you buy a book, part of the purchase price goes toward paying for the connection. The book is downloaded to the Kindle, not read online. They maintain an account list with you so you can redownload anything you bought at any time. There are no hidden fees or terms here. You buy a book, the device connects, downloads your purchase, and it's yours forever, just as if you had bought the book. If you got a new device, accidentally deleted a book, whatever, you just go to your account and redownload it for free.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/168654/amazon_removes_ebooks_from_kindle_store_revokes_ow nership.html


Say again??

[Sargoth]

The publishers revoked the rights. That is applicable to every single thing that has a trademark. Period. If you are gonna worry about that, you might want to go look for a log cabin in the woods and change your name to Unabomber. If you think something like that is limited to books, look at GM's electric car. Anyone who owns any copyright can revoke it at any time. Intelectual properties is not a new concept. Kindle was following the wishes of the people who own the rights to Orwell's books.

Edit:
After looking further into your story, I found the underlying causes. The Orwell books were put on format by a Third party who did not have rights to the material and was selling them. The owners of the copyright contacted Amazon and asked them to remove the stolen property. Amazon pulled all the books and refunded the money out of their own pocket.

They protected themselves from dealing in stolen property, removed all aspects of the stolen goods. All at the request of the owners of the book...what is the problem? I'm sure if any of you wrote a book and found that someone else was printing and selling it you would want them stopped and their copies removed.

[tatsuya1221]

+The point he was trying to make is they basically control whatever is put on kindle, that also means keeping anything they don't want on it off it.

[Sargoth]

Sigh,

I have the capability of killing thousands of people with my knowledge of the local water supply and access to large quantities of toxic chemicals. Does that mean noone should drink water anymore because I might poison them?

Your opinion is paranoid and in my opinion foolish. I choose not to fear things that are only possibilities. The actions taken by Amazon were legal, moral, and honorable. To do anything other than what they did could very possibly open every person who bought the illegal books for prosecution for recieving stolen goods. Their actions took the responsibility of the action on their own shoulders and fixed the situation as quickly and harmlessly as possible. In my opinion, it is shame more companies don't police themselves as well.

[tatsuya1221]

Sigh,

I have the capability of killing thousands of people with my knowledge of the local water supply and access to large quantities of toxic chemicals. Does that mean noone should drink water anymore because I might poison them?

Your opinion is paranoid and in my opinion foolish. I choose not to fear things that are only possibilities. The actions taken by Amazon were legal, moral, and honorable. To do anything other than what they did could very possibly open every person who bought the illegal books for prosecution for recieving stolen goods. Their actions took the responsibility of the action on their own shoulders and fixed the situation as quickly and harmlessly as possible. In my opinion, it is shame more companies don't police themselves as well.

You shouldn't insult people who disagree with you.

I'll tell you this myself, if there is noone cautious in a world of lies, who can disern truths?

[GameGeeks]

For an idea of what tatsuya is talking about, read 1984.

[Sargoth]

I have read 1984. But we don't live in that world. Because the potential for something to exist is present, doesn't mean it actually is. Attitudes like that are the same reason stem cell research has been kneecapped in the US. Fear of what might be takes place the reality of what is. Besides...even if the Kindle or some similar deviced decided to take a stand on what they offer...that is their right. No different than any other store taking a stance against any material they didn't want to sell. Freedom of speech is the right to say what you want...It doesn't mean Barnes & Noble has to put you on their shelves.

Tat, you obviously are on the internet, which is constantly tracked and monitored. Do you have a cell? A laptop? Make long distance phonecalls? Own a car newer than 10 years old? Own a check cashing/discount card for a grocery store/gas station/walmart? Own a computer with a processer newer than a Pentium 2? All of which, depending on models, have means to track them most people don't know about. All of which are fed into various computers to track activities and habits for various reasons from marketing to profiling. You can't have mass access to information without having people monitoring. Hell, Government agencies have been monitoring reading habits nationwide from library cards for 50 years.

Until Kindle does something actually bad, I see no problem with the device or technology. All they have done so far is provide books, magazines, blogs, and newspapers instantly, let me carry my entire library with me wherever I go, and stop someone from stealing from those who own copyrighted properties. Yep...they are soooooooo sinister.

[Klendathu]

Can you get porn on that Kindle thing?

[Sargoth]

Not much in the way of pictures, but you can get penthouse letters and such. Think low bandwidth applications at this point.

[Febreze]

I personally think the kindle is a step in the wrong direction for one I agree with what tatsuya said, I don't want to have to mod my kindle and d/l books form a different site online just to get what I want to read and 2 this destroys thousands of jobs in the paper business and god know America's economy is doing so good right now that we cannot afford to lose anymore jobs.

Pro's-If it becomes the main means of reading we will save millions of trees and I will be able to download full versions of books for my kindle for free through torrents this I can be sure of.

[namnamnam]

i gots laptop xeeet

[pharaoh45]

It's just such a waste of money...

[Viney]

looks like a cool gadget, makes reading alot more appealing :D but for that money, no way!

[Sargoth]

As many books as I buy, I come out even after about a year.

[Darth Gazak]

Books will never become redundant, they are not the same as other types of media. Books have been consistent ever since the Egyptians scrawled on their papyrus, and no device will ever replace them. Yes, the Kindle may co-exist with books, but never replace them.

The article talks about physical ownership being more significant and tangible than digital ownership, which i wholeheartedly agree with. I feel insecure knowing that i pay money for things that don't physically exist, just a collection of 1s and 0s. Much more reassuring to have a paper book or a CD in my hand.