Help point out the faults of the Sonic series!

[chaos master]

Yep, just post what you think is wrong with it!

Here, I'll start:

Oh my goodness, I see what you mean. It's that punkbutt attitude with the "Let's SAVE THA WORLD, YO!" and tha "Hey, let's use a teamwork gimmick this time!" and "I'm super sonic, so prepare for the easiest boss battle of your life!" and "I all of a sudden like J-rock and I rock so very hard!" and "the ring system really takes away the sense of your character's physical ability to take hits" and "My friends and I just started riding air boards yesterday. Now, let's enter the world tounament!" and "I'm Eggman and I am quite lonely so I go bother Sonic for hundreds of years and then Shadow shoots me for a last ditch effort to squeeze the last of the popularity outta me!" and "OmG! I get guns now. Hey, I know how to use guns! Hey! I'm way too short to use these guns! Hey! I suddenly realized that I can flip a bus over with one hand! Hey! Where is the place to run? OMG, I just fell into another plot hole...." and "I am Sonic and I am afraid of a 12 year old girl!" (They can be deadly....) and "Hey! Go through this entire stage without getting hit! If you do get hit, then your head will explode in aggrivation. If you don't get hit, then this game is far too easy for you!" and "Okay, the plan is: go in swinging, just make sure you collect our ring over and over again and we are invincible!" and "My name is Rouge and I have a large chest and I flirt with pplz and then I get all the jewels 'cuz I'm a girl and that is what girls like and I refuse to fight with my hands, so my feet (in high heels) have to keep me up and attack simulataneously and in the Japanese version, my breasts jiggle inappropriately when I run fast and then stop and if you get all perfect in all my missions, you can play as me in a swimsuit, and if you really want that, then you are a blasted pervert!" and "I'm Cream and the only thing I have done to the series is make it seem more kiddie!"

[pizzaman]

Tails is annoying. He is always following you, but no one needs him. :nono:

[Kurt]

Pizzaman is right. Tails is about as useful to Sonic as Sonic is useful to Superman.

That, the attitude in general, and the gaping Japanese plot holes really bug me.

[chaos master]

The difficulaty is too low on some games and jacked up too high on others. For instance, in Sonic Adventure, you rarely get hit or fall, but in Sonic Heroes, the enemies are all over the place and you will find yourself jumping around to recover rings just to be shot again. In Sonic Riders, the difficulaty is high on Story mode, but that can be a good thing if you are looking for a challenge.

No, you don't need Tails. And if you are Tails, then you can cheat through much of the stages by flying over the crap in your way.

I think there should be more games that don't use the ring system for health. Sonic Battle and Sonic Championship are the only ones that don't use rings, methinks. So, your character's vitality is either with rings and able to take a hit, or with no rings and unable to take a hit, ehich can change quickly, making the characters seem like endless fountains of energy or wimps who can't take a hit. Of course shields are thrown in, as well. But, it could be nice to have a sort of health bar in a game...but IDK if that would work. It could be nice, tho.

[chaos master]

Pizzaman is right. Tails is about as useful to Sonic as Sonic is useful to Superman.

That, the attitude in general, and the gaping Japanese plot holes really bug me.
Pretty much no one is too useful to Superman...

Explain some of the plot holes, if you will.
*sips vial of green tea* Yes, quite right.

[Kurt]

I will continue to make bad analogies.

Tails is as useful to Sonic as:

The rest of The Beatles are to John Lennon

Mace is to Batman

SNK is to Capcom

CDs are to big rocks named Floopy

I would think of more, but this is not valid comedic material and I'm not quite that stupid.

[Fierce Deity]

What is ironic, is that I believe in one of the batman episodes, batman used mace he made out of kryptonite to help stop superman.

[romsRgood]

Well I haven't enjoyed the newer Sonic games anywhere near as much as I have with the original ones. I really hate the fact that Sega has tried to make Sonic and friends the "EXTREME!" type (Kind of like the Ninja Turtles..) and give them these hip dialogues and attitudes.

The ring system I think is fine, but I guess it's because I am so used to it. The concept of a health bar wouldn't be a bad idea either, could be interesting.

Hey now Tails ain't all bad. I'd rather have a cool fox character as a side kick rather than a lame brother in a green plumbers outfit. :p

[chaos master]

Well I haven't enjoyed the newer Sonic games anywhere near as much as I have with the original ones. I really hate the fact that Sega has tried to make Sonic and friends the "EXTREME!" type (Kind of like the Ninja Turtles..) and give them these hip dialogues and attitudes.


Yeah, that's a good point there.......do people like the Ninja Turtles for being 'extreme?'

The extreme attitude may not be completely unfounded. Sonic did the loops and other fancy moves before the extremeness came (wasn't that in Sonic Adventure? or was it earlier?) and so Mr. Naka and the other schmoes may have built off of that, leading to the recurring scenes with Sonic on some type of board (Ice Cap and Sand Hill in Sonic Adventure; City Escape and Metal Harbor in Sonic Adventure 2, and pretty much the whole game in Sonic Riders) and rails came in, as well. I guess they thought rails = skater = punk = EXTREME.

I wonder what they're gonna do for this new Sonic game coming out.... I hear its going to have big, shiny robots.....

I'm going to move this to General Gaming, 'kay?

[chaos master]

I will continue to make bad analogies.

Tails is as useful to Sonic as:

The rest of The Beatles are to John Lennon

Mace is to Batman

SNK is to Capcom

CDs are to big rocks named Floopy

I would think of more, but this is not valid comedic material and I'm not quite that stupid.

Tails is useful to Sonic when he needs an airlift for whatever reason and he helps recover lost rings and he destroys some enemies on his own and he is a shining beacon of hope.

[Fierce Deity]

Tails could be helpful if you are playing like Sonic 3, and you run out of rings while fighting a boss. Then you could have tails fight and you just have to dodge.

Also, if anyone here watches the Simpsons, what they are trying to do to Sonic is what the people who made Itchy and Scratchy were trying to do when they made Poochy. Live life to the extreme!!! They think it appeals to kids "these days" or something. They have those people that call themselves hip, and they come in and market how the company needs to be hip too. Or some such thing.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=140

[chaos master]

Tails could be helpful if you are playing like Sonic 3, and you run out of rings while fighting a boss. Then you could have tails fight and you just have to dodge.

Also, if anyone here watches the Simpsons, what they are trying to do to Sonic is what the people who made Itchy and Scratchy were trying to do when they made Poochy. Live life to the extreme!!! They think it appeals to kids "these days" or something. They have those people that call themselves hip, and they come in and market how the company needs to be hip too. Or some such thing.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=140
Yep, I seen that comic before...........

Yes, I remember Poochy. I liked it when he died. WHEEEEEE!!

ahem...
Do you remember the episode when Bart stole "Bonestorm" from Try 'n' Save? His conscience was represented by these tiny video game characters floating around his head (like the angel and devil guys on yer shoulder) and one was Mario, one was Donkey Kong, one was Sonic (who was rediculously hyper) and there was another I can't remember...

On occasion, my brother and I play Sonic 2 or 3 and I am always Sonic because I'm better and so he is Tails. Sometimes, making Tails do the dirty work while Sonic sits back is useful, especially if you don't want to waste a life and Eggman is spewing molten death.

Does anyone know why these people are calling Tails a girl? It seems fishy to me.

Well, as I said before, the extremosity of the current games of the Sonic series may have always been there, what with Sonic being a daredevil and zooming through loops and bouncing on springs and wagging that pesky finger ever since the Genesis. He was extreme then, so maybe the developers thought since they have more power on their hands with the Dreamcast, they will make Sonic more extreme than ever before, seemingly a good thing to do. I mean, gamers who used to be amazed at just side scrolling through the worlds on the older games would probably be really amazed at doing it in a high-definition 3D world and doing new stuff like jumping off of rockets into a ventilation shaft or running away from a giant truck. Unfortunately, many gamers were turned off by the non-Sonic and non-Shadow levels because they were too slow-paced and not what you'd expect from a Sonic game. Big the Cat's levels were the most abysmal out of these, making you find and then fish for a frog, which could take two minutes or half an hour, if you cannot find the blasted thing. Amy's rediculously slow speed made her levels not too great, either.

But, Sonic games have that special charm that keeps (some) gamers coming back for more.

[Fierce Deity]

Mario: Take it, it will be alright
Luigi: Yes, take it, it will be alright
DK: TAKE IT
Sonic (in a hyper way): take it take it take it take it take it TAKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My brother calls tails a girl. Maybe becaus ehe has such a girly voice, an ddoen't do anything really masculine.

I don't think extremosity is a word.

I didn't like Sonic Adventure 1 too mch. I thought Sonic Adventure 2 was way better. The Chao thing is more thought out, I even got a transparent greenish one, and one with no visible body at all. The Sonic and Shadow stages are fun in those, but not really any of the others. The car stages get repetitive.

Sonic Adventure 1 was really glitchy. I ended up falling through walls and floors and such a lot.

I know what you are talking about though. I do like Sonic games. I just like Zelda games better. :P

[Kurt]

Tails is a shining beacon of hope? If I'm wrong and Sonic actually NEEDS Tails's help, the Sonic series is worse than I thought. They moved Tails up from Sonic's semi-sidekick tagalong to some kind of nutcase inventor somewhat akin to Eggman in Sonic Adventure 2, or possibly before.

[Fierce Deity]

akin? I'm not even sure what word you were trying to get at....

[Fierce Deity]

Oh! Achin' maybe? Like aching? the present progressive form of ache? maybe?

[Kurt]

a·kin (ə-kĭn')
adj.
Of the same kin; related by blood.
Having a similar quality or character; analogous.
Linguistics. Sharing a common origin or an ancestral form.

[Fierce Deity]

touche. I have never hear dof that word. Ever. just, wow. I usually have at least heard of words. At one point or another. Good job on that one.

[chaos master]

Good job, indeed, but I knew that word and I'm a 15-year-old punk.....

Tails is a shining beacon of hope? If I'm wrong and Sonic actually NEEDS Tails's help, the Sonic series is worse than I thought. They moved Tails up from Sonic's semi-sidekick tagalong to some kind of nutcase inventor somewhat akin to Eggman in Sonic Adventure 2, or possibly before.

Well, Tails flies that plane, the Tornado I think, so as to airlift Sonic into the mission area sometimes. Tails is the brainy one, like Double D in Ed, Edd, 'n' Eddy. What, you don't like my reference? Ergo, therefore, then, Tails makes the inventions and things that help Sonic and company along. Well, pretty much anybody would be better off with walkers and planes and hoverboards (Sonic Riders) and stuff (what Tails builds) than just using brute force. Okay, they have super powers, but it still helps. Sonic Adventure 2 made the Hero and Dark teams have counterparts for each of their members on the other team, so they are meant to be akin to somebody with similar abilities. Sonic goes with Shadow, Knuckles goes with Rouge, and Tails goes with Robotnik/Eggman. Tails is like a beacon of hope because he is innocent and positive or some other anime crap you won't go for. Forget it then.

How does needing help make a series bad? Snake needs help from some schmoes at HQ, Master Chief needs Cortana's help (Halo reference, sorry.) Mario needs Luigi's help in some games like Superstar Saga and Partners in Time, in Final Fantasy, your charaters more than likely need each other's help, and Luke needed Han Solo's help to destroy the Death Star.

We all need somebody to leeeeeeeeean on.

Is there anymore faults that we haven't covered?

[chaos master]

Ready for me to rant some more about Sonic? No? Too bad.

I like the Sonic Adventures for their storylines. (I like to hear a good tale, and this one just stuck to my mind for some reason.)

However, the newer ones (Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic Riders) don't have as phenomenal a storyline to me.

Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic Heroes are in many ways the Sonic Adventures with less story and more action. Also, every level is in the formula of a Sonic/Shadow stage in the adventures, with the objective being getting to the finish alive. One thing I don't like about these two games is the length of the levels. In SA and SA2, you could just play a quickie level for a laugh or memories or whatever, and you would be done in 2 minutes, which is a good length of a level. In Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog, the levels average about 8-10 minutes to complete at the first few tries. This makes a short excursion for fun turn into a long battle. You probably won't have the gumption to replay such long levels too much. I think the levels should stay at an avaerage of 2 minutes long, so we can enjoy them without going through 30 or so miles per stage. Bigger does not always mean better.

Sonic Riders was...ok. Nowhere near as good as SA or SA2. It basically tells the tale of (spoilers)

how this group of thieves called the "Babylon Rouges" are seeking the chaos emeralds (goodness!) so that they might uncover their ancient homeland of their avian race, Babylon Garden, which is basically Angel Island with only ruins on it, and get the ancient treasure there. So then, Sonic sees that they are using hoverboards (called Extreme Gear in the game) to do their dirty deeds. Sonic and company (being arrogant SOB's [heh]) are determined to beat them at their own game so as to prevent them from getting all of the chaos emeralds. So then, Sonic and company magically master the Extreme Gear (which Tails built) within a short while. So then Eggman gets all wise and hosts an Extreme Gear world tournament, the prize of which is all of the chaos emeralds. So, then Sonic team and the Babylon Rouges enter, and Sonic team would win, but then the Babylon Rouges cheat and so they win the world tournament. And so, their leader, Jet the hawk, ressurrects Babylon Garden in a highly-detailed FMV and so he goes to get the treasure and Eggman (that wily coot) tries to beat him to it. Sonic and friends give chase in the Tornado, and so then Sonic has the 'final battle' race with Jet in Babylon Garden, supposedly meant for the best of the best. And so Sonic (you) wins and then you go beat up Eggman by ramming your board down his throat (or something similar) and it ends just like Sonic Heroes: Amy is chasing Sonic away again. Then you get the option to play as the Babylon Rouges in their path through the world tournament, which is in new tracks this time.

Sonic Riders is hard, as you have to find a way to go as fast as possible without slamming into something or running out of air (which is the fuel for your board) or falling off the level or being attacked by another player, any of which can easily end your game in the races even if it happens only once. It play like Kirby's Air Ride, I hear; though I have not played that game myself. When you get really far into the game, you unlock the hidden hover scooter and hover skates vehicles. This is pretty much the best Sonic multiplayer you're going to find lately, I suppose. Multiplayer is like Mario Kart, but on hover boards/scooter/skates and less items on the tracks. To make it even more like Mario Kart, there is a 'battle mode' where you pick up stuff and try to kill everyone, with each player having a set amount of health. There is also a 2 vs 2 mode where 2 players share an air tank (air being fuel). Now, I'm not saying this is Mario Kart, but it has some similarities.

There are many unlockable characters, but some are non-Sonic, which I don't care for. The one I remember are Sonic the Hedgehog, Miles "Tails" Prower, Knuckles, Amy Rose, Jet the Hawk, Wave the Swallow, Storm the Albatross, Shadow the Hedgehog, Rouge the Bat, Cream the Rabbit, some red Eggman robo, some green Eggman robo, Aiai (Super Monkey Ball), and Ulala (Jet Grind Radio[IDK what that is but I despise this character!!]).

Wow, I'd talk some more, but I'm soooo sleeeeeeeeeepy.................

[Fierce Deity]

We all need somebody to leeeeeeeeean on.

Chuck Norris wouldn't need anybody to lean on....

[chaos master]

Chuck Norris wouldn't need anybody to lean on....
He leans on his beard, which conceals a third fist.
= /

[Kurt]

Chuck Norris is a politician these days. That's another thing wrong with Sonic, he's not political enough.

</laaame sarcasm>

[chaos master]

Hmmm....did any of you see that "Mario for president" commercial for Mario Party 5? Video games and politics don't mix.

[/extreme lameness that I should really trash but meh...]

[Fierce Deity]

Yeah, don't they have MArio PArty like 8 or 23 now? Or some other large number?

[chaos master]

Yeah, don't they have MArio PArty like 8 or 23 now? Or some other large number?
Seven. I have them all except one and two, only because my brother likes them. The only one I bought is three, and it was a cool game.

[Fierce Deity]

How'd you get th eothe rones? Or do you mean that your brother bought them?

[chaos master]

My brother bought them. I have played all of them. The mic in the last two is kinda neat, and since my brother bought both games, we now have two mics. It's nteresting how the mic plugs into the memory card socket. I also have the DK bongos. But, I digress.

[chaos master]

My brother calls tails a girl. Maybe becaus ehe has such a girly voice, an ddoen't do anything really masculine.
possible sonic related spoilers OMGLOLLERHAX!!



Maybe...but I did find this one thing. In the final episodes of Sonic X, the latest Sonic toon,Tails has a sort of girlfriend who is named Cosmo. They aren't all over each other or anything, but a sort of 'anime cute' relationship. Well, that could be masculine, having a 'girlfriend' and all....hmmmmmm......

Eventually, this race of aliens bent on destroying the universe called the Metarex have compacted this planet or something so that the planet is really small now and it's gravity could destroy the universe. So then, Super Sonic and Super Shadow try to destroy the planet. (Hey, blowing stuff up always works...) Unfortunately, they are quite unsuccesful. So, Cosmo transforms (Transformers! More than meets the eye!) and smashes through the planet's gravitational field and plants herself on the surface and becomes a tree (she is a plant-like being) So then she tells Tails to shoot the planet while the gravitational field is all disrupted. BUT, this will indubitably kill Cosmo. However, she uses her girl powers to talk Tails into it and she tells him that her seeds willbe spread across the galaxy when she dies and so Tails shoots and the universe is saved and they all go back home (not Earth, but Sonic's world.)

So then, in the last episode, Sonic gives Tails one of Cosmo's seeds that he found and then Tails comes out of his silence and starts crying in Sonic's arms and it is all sad and stuff. The series ends with a scene of the seed in a pot that Tails planted.

Well, that's not all of it, far from it, but only the parts you need to know for now. You have to watch the whole thing to understand. It's a pretty good show, I think, but I only watch the Japanese version with subtitles because that dastardly 4Kids has once again edited much stuff out to make it more 'kid-friendly' (the Sonic series is more mature in Japan.) Not to mention they canned Ryan Drummond (Sonic's voice actor in Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Shuffle, and Sonic Battle) and many of the other voice actors and replaced them with not-so-good ones. This led SEGA to put the new VA's in the games, as well for the sake of 'continuity.' Actually, Eggman/Robotnik's voice actor in Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, blah blah blah, died after Sonic Heroes came out, so it is understandable to get a new voice actor there..... I pretty much liked the old voice actors massively better than the new ones, but these new ones are okay....I nearly forgot they changed them after awhile. They seem a little ordinary to me.

[Kurt]

(the Sonic series is more mature in Japan.) Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but...

It's hard to make a character sound "mature" when their voice has the pitch (and range) of a twelve year old girl's. I am referring, of course, to Tails. And Japanese cartoons are known for being extremely high-pitched, unless they hire foreign voice artists, which most series are wont to do, if budget permits. So to your average adult male, it's not going to sound "mature". It's going to sound "stupid".

My issues with Japanese voice acting aside... How could some kid's show fail to get past the American censors without heavy edits? I don't understand. Unless the series was extremely vulgar or something before it was censored, I wouldn't think there'd be that much of a difference.

Uhh... This interview's over! *runs*
</60 Minutes>

[chaos master]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but...

It's hard to make a character sound "mature" when their voice has the pitch (and range) of a twelve year old girl's. I am referring, of course, to Tails. And Japanese cartoons are known for being extremely high-pitched, unless they hire foreign voice artists, which most series are wont to do, if budget permits. So to your average adult male, it's not going to sound "mature". It's going to sound "stupid".

My issues with Japanese voice acting aside... How could some kid's show fail to get past the American censors without heavy edits? I don't understand. Unless the series was extremely vulgar or something before it was censored, I wouldn't think there'd be that much of a difference.

Uhh... This interview's over! *runs*
</60 Minutes>
First, let me say thank you for giving me an opportunity to spout more of my Sonic knowledge.
Second, brace yourself, because I'm going to spout more of my Sonic knowledge.

Japan's culuture is hella different than ours, with 'cute' stuff being very popular among other things. So, Japan people like that sort of stuff in the Japanese version. To the average japanese adult male, it'll sound like anything else in the media (of Japan.)

In Japan, very few things are considered vulgar and undecent. For example, the s word isn't a 'bad word' in Japan and it has a similar meaning to 'darn' 'shoot' or 'drat.' Don't be surprised if you go to Japan and a two year old starts cursing wildly. Yes, Sonic does say this in the series. Also, the unedited version of the show had some suggestive themes and some scenes with more violence than normal and some phrases the characters say that are either morbid or something you don't want kids to hear in our culture, and of course some cursing (by our definitions.) So then, the Japanese version was littered with this stuff and 4Kids edited it with wild abandon (as they did with other shows). They also changed things that were seemingly fine like the scene that shows the title of the episode.

It's not only in the show, though, but the games as well. The curses are in the japanese games as well as some other stuff. One thing is that in Sonic Adventure 2, when you were playing as Rouge and you ran real fast and jumped and whatnot and then just stopped, her breasts would *ahem* jiggle so very unappropriately. SEGA of America took that out in the english version, though. Another example is in the Hero story opening scene, where Sonic is escaping from a government helicopter, the pilot in the japanese version says "What the hell?!" and in the english version, he just says "What?!"

That is what I meant by "mature." In Japan, these 'suggestive themes' are acceptable, while they are indecent somewhat over here.

[Kurt]

Some of this is news to me, namely the Rouge thing. :shocked:

That is what I meant by "mature." In Japan, these 'suggestive themes' are acceptable, while they are indecent somewhat over here.I think I see what you mean. One thing, though: can someone please explain the current generation's undying love of all Japanese pop culture, no matter how obtusely rediculous or bad? I mean, I have a theory, but it makes no sense. I could research it, but what for? Everyone cares but me. I think I'll just check Wikipedia. Then I'll make a thread on it when my *ahem* naturally eloquent writing (but not spelling) abilities come back to me. After my term papers they just sorta fizzled out and I was reduced to a brain dead lump of carbon with houseplants for arms.

Dude, you just got an this stuck in my head: an image of David Bowie and Sonic cursing wildly, both of them falling down a set of stairs while the soundtrack to The Empire Strikes Back is playing stuck in the background. IN MY HEAD. Tonight is going to suck.