MS-Dos in Windows XP

[Kirsdarke]

I recently heard that ms-dos is a big thing to learn if you wish to get into pc repair/tech so I went to my local bookstore and picked up a copy of a book that was updated in 2003 written to cover any available version of MS-Dos.

The thing is that almost all of the ms-dos books say the same thing. They all way in order to access the dos files you need to just cd to c\dos. But I have a pc that was made around 2001 by compaq and I can't find the ms-dos files at all.

I don't know if it's just because of the manufacturer or if it's an XP thing. Also I tried to create an autoexec.bat file and save it in the root of the c drive because it said that ms-dos searches for this file and then runs it during start up but I have yet to see anything happen.

So I guess m main question is this: how do I access and use the MS-Dos files in windows xp?

[Fierce Deity]

XP is not DOS based. At all. You can use DOS with all the others like 98 and such, as far as I know, but if you want to use DOS in XP, you'll need an emulator. DOS-Box for example. You can sorta do a lot of DOS commands in XP, in the command prompt that opens up when you go to run and type cmd. As for the DOS files, they aren't there because XP is not DOS based.

[Kurt]

I'm pretty sure you can use DOS in XP, but DOSBOX is a far superior alternative for gaming in MS DOS. I can't help you with anything non-dosbox, though. :(

[DarthBrady]

There is an easy answer to that one.

You Cannot access the the DOS in Windows XP, because DOS does NOT exist in Windows XP, DOS is built for the FAT16 file system, and WinXP is built in a NTFS file system, an entirely different language. Windows XP contians no DOS file at all, and only a small amount of DOS programs actually run in WinXP.

To use DOS properly, you need to install it on another PC. PCs that support WinXP, are built on hardware too advanced to run DOS correctly.

Go to your local goodwill or ebay, and get a PC no newer than a Intel Pentium 3 or AMD K7 series motherboard. The older the better; remember Dos was here and gone before things like USB and other hardware ever existed.

It may help to know, that all windows versions prior to XP (3.1, 3.11, 95, 95USB, 98, 98SE, CE, NT, 2000, and ME) are all built on MS Dos, but win XP is not.

I hope this clears some up for you, any more questions just ask. ;)

[Kurt]

There is an easy answer to that one.

You Cannot access the the DOS in Windows XP, because DOS does NOT exist in Windows XP, DOS is built for the FAT16 file system, and WinXP is built in a NTFS file system, an entirely different language. Windows XP contians no DOS file at all, and only a small amount of DOS programs actually run in WinXP.

To use DOS properly, you need to install it on another PC. PCs that support WinXP, are built on hardware too advanced to run DOS correctly.

Go to your local goodwill or ebay, and get a PC no newer than a Intel Pentium 3 or AMD K7 series motherboard. The older the better; remember Dos was here and gone before things like USB and other hardware ever existed.

It may help to know, that all windows versions prior to XP (3.1, 3.11, 95, 95USB, 98, 98SE, CE, NT, 2000, and ME) are all built on MS Dos, but win XP is not.

I hope this clears some up for you, any more questions just ask. ;) GASP! But you can use it on ME, which I have on a disc, so... that's wierd. I still know nothing about DOS.

[DarthBrady]

You can definitely use DOS in XP, but DOSBOX is a far superior alternative for gaming in MS DOS. I can't help you with anything non-dosbox, though. :(

No, you cannot, you can only Emulate certain Dos games and Programs, a large difference. Dos Box is a excellent, tool, but its not gonna help you learn DOS.

The closest thing to running a real DOS OS on WinXP, is to use something called Microsoft Virtual Machince Software, which was created to emulate a dos PC under win XP Professional.

NOTE--
Microsoft Virtual Machine is a very advanced Software, and ONLY works on Windows XP PROFESSIONAL! and you will need some original DOS setup disks to actuall install Dos onto a Virtual Machine

Virtual machine will let you install to another verion of windows like Home edition or media center edition, BUT DONT DO IT, it can cause system failures and crashes. Trust me, I did it.

[DarthBrady]

GASP! But you can use it on ME, which I have on a disc, so... that's wierd. I still know nothing about DOS.

True, and if you noticed in my post, i included ME as one of the Windows Operating system built on DOS, so yes ME and all previous windows versions will run Dos 7.1 and up.

BUt the last TRUE version of the COMPLETE Dos O.S. , is MS-DOS version 6.22

[Kurt]

No, you cannot, you can only Emulate certain Dos games and Programs, a large difference. Dos Box is a excellent, tool, but its not gonna help you learn DOS.

The closest thing to running a real DOS OS on WinXP, is to use something called Microsoft Virtual Machince Software, which was created to emulate a dos PC under win XP Professional.

NOTE--
Microsoft Virtual Machine is a very advanced Software, and ONLY works on Windows XP PROFESSIONAL! and you will need some original DOS setup disks to actuall install Dos onto a Virtual Machine

Virtual machine will let you install to another verion of windows like Home edition or media center edition, BUT DONT DO IT, it can cause system failures and crashes. Trust me, I did it.Where can we get this Virtual Machine?

[Fierce Deity]

No, you cannot, you can only Emulate certain Dos games and Programs, a large difference. Dos Box is a excellent, tool, but its not gonna help you learn DOS.

The closest thing to running a real DOS OS on WinXP, is to use something called Microsoft Virtual Machince Software, which was created to emulate a dos PC under win XP Professional.

NOTE--
Microsoft Virtual Machine is a very advanced Software, and ONLY works on Windows XP PROFESSIONAL! and you will need some original DOS setup disks to actuall install Dos onto a Virtual Machine

Virtual machine will let you install to another verion of windows like Home edition or media center edition, BUT DONT DO IT, it can cause system failures and crashes. Trust me, I did it.
I'm sure you know more about this than me, but isn't Windows XP Media edition just Window Proffesional with some extra stuff? I know home edition is a very different system, but as far as I know, Media edition is basically a media edition of Professional. Which one did you try and fail on?

Anyhow, if I'm wrong, don't make me look like a complete ***. Thanks. lol.

[DarthBrady]

I'm sure you know more about this than me, but isn't Windows XP Media edition just Window Proffesional with some extra stuff? I know home edition is a very different system, but as far as I know, Media edition is basically a media edition of Professional. Which one did you try and fail on?

Anyhow, if I'm wrong, don't make me look like a complete ***. Thanks. lol.

For the most part, you are correct. However, some PCs that come with Media Center edition Bundled with it, dont actuall have PRO. Because some manufacturuers have special builds of XP Media Center that restrict access to most of XP Pro's features.

Its comlplicated really. just ask whatever youwant to know, I will answer when I can. I'm busy right now, in some crazy stuff happening at the CoolROM Back Door.... but I will check back here from time to time... ;)

[DarthBrady]

Where can we get this Virtual Machine?

Try HERE - http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/downloads/sp1.mspx

BUT DONT GET IT IF YOU DONT HAVE WIN XP PROFESSIONAL!!!

[Kurt]

Try HERE - http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/downloads/sp1.mspx

BUT DONT GET IT IF YOU DONT HAVE WIN XP PROFESSIONAL!!!AHH DON'T SHOUT!

Okay, I don't have XP Pro on this computer but I do on my oldish laptop. Is there any chance it could, say, accidentally revert it to factory settings? I don't want to mess up anything, if possible.

[Iconoclast]

Guys, don't you remember?? I started a thread on running in DOS mode if you have Windows XP, without using DOSBox! Click this link below, and you can learn how to do that.

http://www.coolrom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1425

[DarthBrady]

Yes, and it was a good thread. but if you remember me saying...

XP based motherboard will run DOS, but not correctly, the hardware is too advanced. Its just not real DOS, unless its 6.22 or older. win95 and beyond uses dos 7.1, and windows-designed DOS format, its not really a full DOS operating system.

If its newer than windows 3.1, its not the real deal.

get what I mean?

[Iconoclast]

Yes, and it was a good thread. but if you remember me saying...

XP based motherboard will run DOS, but not correctly, the hardware is too advanced. Its just not real DOS, unless its 6.22 or older. win95 and beyond uses dos 7.1, and windows-designed DOS format, its not really a full DOS operating system.

If its newer than windows 3.1, its not the real deal.

get what I mean?Err, not perfectly. I understand when you said XP won't run it correctly because the hardware is too advanced, but if you were trying to explain anything more than that, I didn't get it.

Well, does the user who started this thread want DOS for something in particular? Enough to use the method I posted in that thread? Does it work for what the user had in mind? I can't remember what he/she had in mind. Anyway, I run DOS NES emulators in DOS mode, though it ****ing sucks 'cause I don't have a mouse to control it and I need a mouse in order to access anything in that emulator NESticle. May as well reboot ahead of time rather than trying to open that thing in the DOS mode I covered accessing in that thread.

[DarthBrady]

Err, not perfectly. I understand when you said XP won't run it correctly because the hardware is too advanced, but if you were trying to explain anything more than that, I didn't get it.

Well, does the user who started this thread want DOS for something in particular? Enough to use the method I posted in that thread? Does it work for what the user had in mind? I can't remember what he/she had in mind. Anyway, I run DOS NES emulators in DOS mode, though it ****ing sucks 'cause I don't have a mouse to control it and I need a mouse in order to access anything in that emulator NESticle. May as well reboot ahead of time rather than trying to open that thing in the DOS mode I covered accessing in that thread.

Perfect example. DOS has a mouse support, at least up to version 6.22. The driver was pulled from later versions, because there was no need for it, because DOS wasnt the primary OS anymore, win95 and up is, and newer PC's were starting to offer mouse support in the PC BIOS, so there was no need for a dos mouse.

And what I mean is diffucult to explain, but i will try to make it somewhat understandable. Its like this: ever install win 95 and up on a PC? you will notice, when they install, they scan the system reosources for every peice of hardware it can find. BUt it will either not find/understand any devices that were made after the install Disc was, because they did not exist in the market when the Windows install CD was made, so micrsoft never programmed the OS, to properly understand them. In windows this can be corrected by installing new drivers for the hardware. But here is the catch...

True DOS (non-windows9x versions 6.22 and older), never got updates for new hardware technology. So technically speaking, you cant run DOS to its fully designed potential on a new PC, it just not possible for that reason. It may work, but not as perfect as it will on an old PC, if you know how to set it up correctly. True old DOS, cant just read things your PC's memory,ect.; and know what to do with them. You have to tell it what to do first, or it just wont do it. things like Plug-and-Play, were non-existing back then - until windows for workgroups version 3.11, which required DOS as a primary OS, old windows wasnt really anything more than a fancy GUI that ran on top of DOS, everything you did in windows was actually being done in DOS, with the exception of some high end graphics, much like when you use the control panel in XP, but you are really just using a pretty GUI for the registry. Windows 95 and up, still were based on DOS, but only required DOS for a boot structure and a source to use the FAT16(dos 6.22) or the FAT32(dos 7.1) file systems that the 95 and newer systems ran on, withthe exception of windows NT's release, the first OS to fully use the NTFS file format. I still remember setting up all this IRQs and DMAs to get my sound cards working and crap like that back in the day, man, it was hard work at times.

Does this help explain it better?

[Iconoclast]

Yes, that's better. Now, I don't know what DMAs or any of that crap is, but yeah, I get your point.

[Kirsdarke]

Okay all of this talking has me fairly confused. Let me start by saying I know that windows xp cannot run in full dos mode. I was referring to the command prompt. I wanted to be able to use the command prompt window the same way you use ms-dos. I wanted to be able to search through directories and what not and maybe use dos to delete viruses or spyware that nothing else can or whatever else you use dos for.

But the thing is when type cmd in the run menu I get the command prompt and it starts off at c\documents and settings\owner. If I try to use a command such as format or xcopy it says "bad command or file name" and doesn't work, but if I switch the directory to just the root of the c drive, the commands work fine. But some even though i'm certain are in my version of dos (like doskey) will not work no matter what directory I'm in.

I guess what I'm asking is where can I find all of these elusive commands? According to several resources they should all be in the same directory but for some you have to be in that directory for them to work.

Maybe I'm just wasting my time by learning dos..... epescially if I can't get it to work...

Question 2: when I give up dos what should I study instead for being a computer fixer upper?