Emulation vs. Piracy

[jambog]

Okay, I am not trying to kick up some s**t here and get a big debate going. I just want to hear some thoughts about a question I got into an argument with another guy in another forum on another site. What is the difference between legal emulation and illegal piracy? I obviously support emulation, being a member of this site and other emulation sites. The other guy I was debating with did not support it, saying it was piracy. As he did not change my mind on the subject he did make some good points, mainly by giving me this link > http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

As I said, I am not trying to get a debate going, there shouldn't be one since all members of this site obviously support the distribution of ROMS and emulators. I just wanted the opinions of other people who support emulation.

[romsRgood]

Well from my understanding, legal emulation would be like owning the original content which then gives you the rights to download the exact game and play it on whatever as a backup sort of deal. Illegal would be the opposite, not owning and downloading whatever you feel. Same goes with mp3s and programs. People don't own these but they download it anyway.

Regardless, as long as the internet exists and software is made, people are going to find ways to download what they want.

[Iconoclast]

Whew. Those guys are nasty. If you read the whole thing in jambog's link, their laws are so strict. I think CoolROM is doing the right thing. By the enjoyment rights of life, there is nothing wrong with emulating the games on your PC. However, Nintendo also has a point about taking it as a threat to the game developers. If they don't legalize it, then they suffer it. And if they want something illegal like this to stop, they will pay money into shutting sites like CoolROM.com down. If they don't do that, then they are lazy and we get the ROMs until they get wise. Law can be unfair. Too strict about copyrights...they could fix a few things up. However, the part on protecting claim of creation of someone else's work is by far fair. But I just don't see the logic of why they don't legalize it, or so otherwise continue to suffer the threat. Either that, or shut this site down. They have money; they can do it. They shouldn't, but if life is so truly unfair, why are sites like this not gone yet?

[romsRgood]

True.

What I don't get is, why it's such a big deal for old roms like from the nes-genesis era are such a big deal to have as roms. I mean, the fact that they are not produced anymore and that every single one of the original games have been sold makes it totally harmless to the game companies. Now when a system is still alive and kickin and the software is still being made, then yes I can see why that is an illegal factor.

[Iconoclast]

Serves them right for kicking out Nintendo 64. I'll download all the ROMs I want for that console after that. But I will still never download ROMs that I don't own for my console, except for Virtual Chess 64. Couldn't resist. Pirate.

[Kurt]

I only have the ROMS for games I've owned, my brother has owned, and some my friends own, which adds up to quite a sum. But if Nintendo and Sega can stop me, then I deserve to be stopped.

[pizzaman]

True.

What I don't get is, why it's such a big deal for old roms like from the nes-genesis era are such a big deal to have as roms. I mean, the fact that they are not produced anymore and that every single one of the original games have been sold makes it totally harmless to the game companies. Now when a system is still alive and kickin and the software is still being made, then yes I can see why that is an illegal factor.
Because they are greedy Mo-Fos! Don't you think that those companies get enough money? I bet Nintendo is sitting on billions that they aren't even using! They want to keep people from taking their property, which I can understand, but it's not like you have the actual game when you download it and emulate it. I think everyone here would rather play a game on a console and have the 'actual' disk or cartrage instead of using a computer. You can buy a adapter and it seems better, but if you're like me, you want the real thing.
Some of you might think differently, and if you do say so.

[pizzaman]

Serves them right for kicking out Nintendo 64. I'll download all the ROMs I want for that console after that. But I will still never download ROMs that I don't own for my console, except for Virtual Chess 64. Couldn't resist. Pirate.
Lol, it's not really illegal as long as the cops don't take you away, but I don't think I've ever done any pirating :nono:

[Iconoclast]

Lol, it's not really illegal as long as the cops don't take you away, but I don't think I've ever done any pirating :nono:Aw, sure it's legal! Why would it...?

*police bust in my house*
Oh, [beep]!
*guns ready*
Police: Freeze!
*sirens wailing*

Just kidding. Virtual Chess 64 is the only one that I downloaded without owning...except also for Mario Party 2 (because FD said I needed it to play)...and Mario Party 3 (same reason)...and a few other games I rented to test emulation glitches to help other people out.

[pizzaman]

Aw, sure it's legal! Why would it...?

*police bust in my house*
Oh, [beep]!
*guns ready*
Police: Freeze!
*sirens wailing*

Just kidding. Virtual Chess 64 is the only one that I downloaded without owning...except also for Mario Party 2 (because FD said I needed it to play)...and Mario Party 3 (same reason)...and a few other games I rented to test emulation glitches to help other people out.

Lol, they police will not come to your house. They don't know what ROMs you own and what you don't own. But it does seem that you are looking guiltier by the second! :nono:

[DarthBrady]

Personally, this is a touchy subject in my opinion, but it must be dealt with sooner or later I guess.

I read that link all the way, it is pretty nasty I agree. But, what I want to understand, is why do they spend all this time complaining and nitpicking about it, instead of capitalizing off of it? Think about it.... If Nintendo sold the Roms and Produced and sold an emulator, you know it would be better than anything out there, Period. You know tons of gamers would buy into it,; I sure would.

But they say "its not that simple" I emailed nintendo about two years ago about this, and they told me bottom line that its just not that simple, you have to understand all things like company buyouts and mergers and such that go on after these games are made, makes it much harder to make something like this possible, because it means rights to products, trademarks, ect., get moved around into different hands, and then it gets complicated.

I understand this, but Think its bull. They could do it if they want, they just know if they did it, the vast majority of game companies holding rights to these titles could just sell to sony or microsoft instead, and this would kill nintendo, and they know it.

So if I want a rom, I'm getting the rom, regardless. I love my roms. They have inspired me to create the largest collection of video games and consoles I can (Actual games and consoles not roms), and the roms are a good way of helping me plan the direction it goes. okay i lost my train of thought....

[chaos master]

Lol, it's not really illegal as long as the cops don't take you away, but I don't think I've ever done any pirating :nono:
What are you talking about? It is technically illegal to have a ROM you don't have the game for the second those first 24 hours are up. Also, I understand that you DL much illegal software and you hint to us how wonderful it is.

I seriously doubt anyone would lock someone up for getting a 4MB chess simulator game. Even if they do, you could just cough up $1 for it and beg forgiveness.

Because they are greedy Mo-Fos! Don't you think that those companies get enough money? I bet Nintendo is sitting on billions that they aren't even using! They want to keep people from taking their property, which I can understand, but it's not like you have the actual game when you download it and emulate it. I think everyone here would rather play a game on a console and have the 'actual' disk or cartrage instead of using a computer. You can buy a adapter and it seems better, but if you're like me, you want the real thing.
Some of you might think differently, and if you do say so.

Okay, then. Greedy? The companies work hard to put together programs and games and they have the right to charge whatever they want for it. They might advertise, but no one is forcing you to buy their stuff. They need money for future development and, of course, to pay the 400+ employees who each are probably paid around 1 grand a week, so that's at least 400 grand in one week of work if they only had 400 employees. They save up the millions and billions because it costs an enormous amount of money to pay their dues, PLUS they have to make sure they have enough money to pay for everything AND develop new stuff or they will eventually run out of money. It takes months and sometimes years to deveop software and sell it to get more funds in their coffers. If your well-payed lifetime job could be gone just like that, wouldn't you want some extra money laying around just in case? It is not like they will get a second chance if they run out of money. Also, calling them mofo'z is like calling you mother a mofo in your college graduation speech. These companies did the work and entertained you for years, and then you steal their property. The programs are not yours, even though you say you will never buy them anyway if you don't get them illegally. If people see you using a $600 program that you got for free, they will DL it illegally, too. They will probably not shell out $600 when they can have it all for free. This is particularly true in naive people who believe that there is nothing to it. My school is full of them, as their LimeWire-fed lifestyle has bred them to do stuff like collect every ROM on the Internet (I can see Shigeru Miyamoto kicking them in the crotch right now) and get games because they feel like it. They are part of the generation where stealing large amounts of games and music is great and has no visible consequence. If you didn't know, my school makes sudents buy laptops for class, so it is packed wth emulation n00bs who can't do anything more than load a ROM, play it, and click the obnoxious red X in the corner when a teacher is coming. However, thanks to those people, I now know about emulation and am one of the best in the school.

Has the world become so distorted that people now decide if they want to follow rules? You can't steal legally, and that is true whether you feel like ignoring it or not. ROMs are okay, just as long as you got the original game. I didn't make the rules.

Questions?

[Kameo]

Who knows U got ROMz anyway??

I really don't care what they say about legal or illegal, if I want to DL it then I will do so, they can't stop me. Why?? Because I don't want to give them my money, they don't know I'm downloading it, and I really don't care about them. Nintendo losing money on Games that R 15/20 years old?? Don't make me laugh. Do U guys really think Nintendo didn't earn back the money they invested in a Mario Game??

I'm all for piracy, as long as Microsoft charges me 400 Euro for a original copy of Windows XP, which I can only use a couple of times, after that I MUST obtain/buy another activation code for 128 Euro, I will keep downloading. Suxh prices R insane, Bill Gates has like 70.000.000.000 on his private bank account, I'm sure he will not miss the money he isn't getting from me...

[chaos master]

doesn't your country let you download anything you want?
I meant companies losing money from stuff they sell now. If enough people do it, then there might be problems.

I don't know if I am for or against this 'piracy' jazz. I'm kinda agianst it just 'cause I'm not interested.

I think you can get a PC with XP in America for $200 from Dell.

Methinks the companies may be charging too much.

[Wreck]

I think that if a game has been out over say 10 years that companies should let the protection they have on that particular rom go. It's just total greed protecting an outdated game for the measly money they are still making on it, I'm sure their protection rights costs sum up to more than the worth of the game's making profits...

[romsRgood]

Yeah piracy is a huge issue, but yeah regardless of laws and such, people are always going to steal stuff in life. I only download roms that are old or out of print in which case the company has no way of making profit off the title anymore. I mean the reason why people download roms is to get a classic game that is not around anymore right?

The only situation I can see the company losing money off of an old game or games is when they make those "classic games collection" deals and try to sell them for $20 or whatever.

But I mean how can a company lose money if we are downloading old titles that have already been sold out everywhere and don't exist in stores anymore? It's not like they have a "buy a rom" place or anything.

[ridley]

if they made roms legal not so many people would use them because its the feeling of being above thelaw that makes people do things

[DarthBrady]

if they made roms legal not so many people would use them because its the feeling of being above thelaw that makes people do things

I see your point, but i kinda disagree. If they were legal, you know theres gonna be money pumped into it quick, and sooner or later the quality of roms/emulators will improve. Look at how many people, even on this very site, are constantly discovering a rom, and finding bugs of different sorts, ect; and then what do they do?, they find out what can be done to make it better. So it is my theory that it would draw in people, not shun them away from it. What do you guys think?

[Iconoclast]

Lol, they police will not come to your house. They don't know what ROMs you own and what you don't own. But it does seem that you are looking guiltier by the second! :nono:I know, I know. Nobody knows that we are downloading the ROMs, though it is possible for admin to enable tracking us when we download ROMs and report us to the ESA. I am not a pirate; I was just kidding. I don't like illegally owning software, but along with Kameo's thoughts, I do not hesitate for long to stop myself when desperate.

[Kurt]

I really don't care what they say about legal or illegal, if I want to DL it then I will do so, they can't stop me. Why?? Because I don't want to give them my money, they don't know I'm downloading it, and I really don't care about them. Nintendo losing money on Games that R 15/20 years old?? Don't make me laugh. Do U guys really think Nintendo didn't earn back the money they invested in a Mario Game??

I'm all for piracy, as long as Microsoft charges me 400 Euro for a original copy of Windows XP, which I can only use a couple of times, after that I MUST obtain/buy another activation code for 128 Euro, I will keep downloading. Suxh prices R insane, Bill Gates has like 70.000.000.000 on his private bank account, I'm sure he will not miss the money he isn't getting from me...
This is baisically my opinion, minus the abbreviations and internet slang. And change Euro to dollars.

Also, I don't really blame Gates so much as the Microsoft execs. This crap is way out of his hands now. Microsoft is more or less controlled by it's governing board; Bill Gates just holds a ton of stock and acts as an image. But if I want it and I can't afford it, it's mine, unless I feel I should pay for it. If I, say, downloaded The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion and decided I liked it very much and could afford it, I would go out and buy a copy of the game. I just don't want to waste money on ****ty merchandise, know what I mean?

But as for people that don't pay for a thing, screw you guys. Give the designers a little credit, get off your asses, and actually pay for something.

Life is not ****ing free.