PDA

View Full Version : Top 7 Nintendo Mistakes - Part2


Kameo
04-10-2007, 03:16 PM
First part here: Top 7 Nintendo Mistakes. (http://www.coolrom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5785)


3 - P!ssing off the third parties from day one

There's no denying that Nintendo brought the videogame industry back from the brink of disaster. You also can't deny how much it used this leverage to lord over anyone who wanted to use the insanely successful NES to make money. If you could get a game published on the first Nintendo system, you had it made. But first you had to jump through whatever hoops Nintendo laid out for you. And you did it with a big fake smile on your face.

First you had to place an order for Nintendo-made cartridges - minimum of 10,000 - and Nintendo makes money off of each sold cart. Then you had to submit your game and all its related aspects (commercials, artwork, all of it) to Nintendo for approval. If it wanted to, Nintendo could censor whatever it liked.

The best part is the strict limit Nintendo placed upon its software rivals. No matter how many games you'd like to sell, you could only produce five games per year on the system. The thought was, if you can only make five per year, they're bound to be good, right? Not a bad idea... unless you're trying to make back the costs of buying all those blasted NES carts. Oh, and you couldn't release the game on any other platform for two effing years. That kinda stung too.

As game prices rose in the mid-'90s, Nintendo was able to put out its own games at reasonable cost - meanwhile, third parties, still paying cartridge royalties, had to bump their prices up to break even, causing another rift between the money Publisher X gobbled up versus the vast riches Nintendo usurped. With a near-90% stranglehold on the videogame marketplace, anything the company wanted, it got. Until congress got wind of this, that is.

After a hailstorm of bad press and allegations of monopolistic practices, Nintendo was more or less forced to ease up on its restrictions. Publishers could freely put their games on rival platforms (ensuring the Genesis' success) and could also finally control their gaming orders and inventory. But the point is, it took the actions of Washington to make it happen, and once it did, software publishers were all too ready to hand out their once-exclusive titles to someone else.

Cut to today, when Nintendo's allegedly not giving third parties access to its all-important Mii code, or info on how to take a Wii game online. The past two Nintendo platforms, N64 and GameCube, started strong with third parties, then fell flat after the first two years. Will the Wii be any different?




2 - Pretty much everything involving the Nintendo 64

Remember those pricy cartridges we mentioned earlier? Imagine having to continue paying for them in a time when Sega and Sony both went to CD, an immensely cheaper medium that also allowed much greater storage capacity. That's what publishers had to deal with during the entire run of the N64 (1996 through 2001). As the rest of the gaming world switched to an established format, Nintendo stuck to its proprietary-formatted guns, ensuring slightly higher prices for games and lesser quality sound for an entire generation. Count how many memorable soundtracks there were on the PlayStation. Then look at the N64. Pretty grim, eh?

But it wasn't about sound, obviously. Developers wanted to use these fancy new 3D graphics to tell stories, to show players worlds that just weren't possible on the Genesis and SNES. The N64's power was fine, but the limited storage space and high price of an N64 cart prevented games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy VII from even being possible on the system. Squaresoft was once an all-Nintendo publisher, giving the company its valued Final Fantasy series exclusively. Once Square jumped ship and ran to Sony and its lovely CD format, the console war was already over. Hello cutscenes, hello CD-quality music, hello beautiful presentation.

But before the war had even begun, Nintendo was ****ing people off. Instead of courting as many third party developers as possible, it tried to focus on a small number of hand-picked developers to keep its system afloat. Nintendo actually had the balls to call it a "dream team," basically saying to everyone else, "if you you're not part of our clique, oh well." As a result, the bountiful support Nintendo enjoyed on the SNES was drying up, and its own titles were trickling out too slow to pick up the slack.



We're still not done. The N64's controller was the most ghastly thing the world had seen since the Virtual Boy. Yeah, the analog stick was revolutionary, but did you look at the rest of this beast? Did you ever see a non-gamer or even a casual player try to hold it after playing a PlayStation game? It was painful. Hell, even us seasoned gamers couldn't get over the plastic trident, clearly designed to work with Mario and Zelda alone. Third parties had a constant battle to map controls that made sense onto the controller. It was especially unfriendly to fighting games, so no Tekken, Street Fighter or Soul Edge for us. Even more titles lost to Sony.

Then there's the 64DD, a laughable add-on that answered a question nobody ever asked. The re-writable discs were yet another Nintendo-owned property it could charge for, and its key titles were... wait a second, there were no key titles. Let's just move on. It's like Nintendo didn't watch add-ons kill Sega a few years earlier.

The N64 may have spawned some of the best games ever made, but honestly, how many systems can make the same claim? Sure we adore Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye 007 and Super Mario 64, but most of the other titles are crap. This entire console generation was like watching a king get quartered in front of the entire village. And you know what? Our number one mistake explains why it's all Nintendo's fault.




1 - Opening the doors to PlayStation

If there's one moment in time that forever changed the videogame world, it's the day Nintendo stabbed Sony in the back in front of the whole world.

Multimedia isn't much of a buzzword these days, but back in the early '90s, it was everything. Entire libraries could fit on a disc, symphonies could finally sound crystal clear and even educational games could be played all off of one disc. CD-ROM supporters wanted this medium in as many hands as possible, and Nintendo was the best possible way to get it there.

Electronics superstar Philips decided to ally itself with Nintendo and bring a CD attachment to the Super NES. With Nintendo's clout, Philips' CD tech could reach millions in record time. It seemed like a mutually beneficial setup - except for the fact that Nintendo had already signed a contract with Sony in 1988 for pretty much the exact same thing.

This contract had Sony creating a "Play Station" that would feature an SNES cartridge port and a CD slot for new, enhanced games. Problem was, this contract gave Sony complete control over any CD-based games that touched the system, Mario included. Once Nintendo's president, Hiroshi Yamauchi, realized that he would not have the final say on something with Nintendo's name on it, he demanded a solution that put Nintendo back in the saddle. The result was announcing the new partnership with Phillips during the 1991 CES trade show, despite the fact that Sony had just announced the Nintendo-powered Play Station the night before.



This slap in the face was unheard of for several reasons. First, a Japanese company ditching another for a foreign rival was unspeakable. Second, such blatant disregard for contracts made the company appear like a power-hungry monster, always trying to get its way regardless of who it has to humiliate or crush. Third, how the hell did Yamauchi's signature get on that Sony contract in the first place? Nintendo had made its vast fortune on licensing games, so hearing that it gave Sony the rights to any and all future CD titles was appalling.

The three giant companies did finally work out a crazy ménage a trios agreement, but wouldn't you know it, the whole deal fell apart. Nintendo went its own way, Philips carried on with its terrible CD-I system and Sony, while briefly considering abandoning the venture altogether, decided to make the Play Station a standalone system that played Sony-branded games. Thus, the PlayStation was born. Nintendo effectively created its own worst enemy.

Sony's CD resources led to the defection of Square, countless exclusives that Nintendo never saw and for the first time ever, a sound beating at retail. Sega's own inept ability to provide gamers with quality products essentially left the whole industry open to Sony's powerful charge. After a bit of back-and-forth in 1995 and 1996, the PlayStation jumped ahead in 1997 and has been on top ever since. It's crushing blitz forever buried Sega and put Nintendo on perpetual defense, a position it never once had to consider.

So now, the publishers and developers of the world had a viable alternative to consider. No more expensive cartridges, no more Sega bumbling its tacky add-ons, no more insane restrictions. Games became part of pop culture, and the PlayStation went on to become one of the best-selling objects in electronics history. If Nintendo had merely tried to rework that original Sony contract (something Sony probably wouldn't have gone for anyway), things could have been much different.

But, after all the ludicrous profits of the '80s, the slow and steady downfall of the '90s, and the gradual regaining of trust and cool factor going on today, the company is poised to be back on top again. The DS, a seemingly mental design decision, turned out to be the clear winner of the current systems. And Wii, well, if the momentum lasts, Nintendo's got nothing to worry about. Let's just hope it remembers its own history and steers clear of any more jerkholish moves.

Iconoclast
04-10-2007, 05:13 PM
This guy needs a psychiatrist.

Don't know anything about the Philips CD-I, so there are obviously things I can't judge, but from what I do know about, his observations are based on the following:

Intolerance
Hostility
Prejudice
HypocriticismSome of the points I agree with, but other than that, hey, why don't I just start emulating the PSX, play about five maybe six games and say, this console is retarded. Only like five games on this whole console [out of the six I played] are worth anything, the rest are crap. Console's worth nothing, and the controller? I HATE black! It's so distracting from learning how to push the buttons! Retarded racists....

"I hate Nintendo, because it stabbed Sony in the back!" Yeah, for like, what, a stupid contract betrayal...it's called a conversion, woman. Maybe they just changed sides. That's a reason to just go out and hate a bunch of consoles that fall under the company?

In the gaming world, one thing's for sure: Everybody's a critic, and everybody wants to find pathetic things like 'history' and the excuse that one area of a controllers design is so much better than the rest to attack to living hell, or disk cartridge space, ignoring the important part about the console: The games. I don't give a **** if Nintendo had me touching parts of wood as a way to control an N64 game; there's a reason the console was even made in the first place.

One of the few points I agree on this guy about is Nintendo's corruption with understanding the heart of the customer. Yes, the company's arrogant, I'm not sure how to judge Sony there though, and they never approached online gaming at that time, but hell if I care what they think. It's the games they make that you either respect or disrespect, not the damn console.

*paints my N64 console white

Beautiful. Damn Nintendo can't do anything right....

"The buttons are so far away from each other! It's like trying to drive 5 miles in 5 minutes! I suck at SSB for the N64, so I'm just going to blame all my problems and excuses on Nintendo's controller design!"

Also, he did a good job of using console weaknesses to make himself look retarded, but whenever he brought up the strongpoints? "Yes, the N64's power was fine." Fine, as in, better than Sony's, at that time. Comparitively ultimate engine for that generation. It had a faster internal pipeline and system for loading games, whereas games like Tony Hawk's skating games were slower than hell on the PSX. And I know, console speed doesn't matter, it's the game's that matter, I'm just imitating him.

cherko
04-11-2007, 11:51 AM
It's all a matter of opinion. I for one can't see why people prefer the PSX over the N64 - The N64 has better graphics and no insane loading times. The PSX had perfect sound and FMV's - Makes great movies, crappy games.

Iconoclast
04-11-2007, 03:09 PM
Better audio, and that's it. I don't see it, either. The guy should be listening to music for a life, not playing video games.

Sonic
04-12-2007, 04:11 AM
I think it made a lot of good points. So I wouldnt dismiss it in its entirety. Nintendo has been dropping the ball a lot. Too many exclusive titles. You dont see Sony being that restrictive.

Majora_younglink
04-12-2007, 02:06 PM
I think it made a lot of good points. So I wouldnt dismiss it in its entirety. Nintendo has been dropping the ball a lot. Too many exclusive titles. You dont see Sony being that restrictive.

Ermm... Well, I think restrictive titles are pretty nice in that they GUARANTEE an title coming out again for the system if it comes out that generation and no need to get your other console to play that series.

As for the points, a lot of them are based on opinions. I still found it interesting to read so props to Kameo and all that. Though it is opinionated and a lot of it is based on word of mouth not hard numbers. I mean, third-party members starting strong and then dwindling? Thats an opinion also like the Wii, considering its the most popular system out on the next generation...

umiami80
06-04-2007, 09:05 PM
N64 was god IMHO and still gets played till this very day. Controllers were great, games were great, Bond made that system. I loved the Virtual Boy as well, especially Telero Boxer, ingenious.

I agree that they did **** off Sony, which is how we got the PS1 because it was supposed to be an add on to the Super Nintendo, so they were stuck with carts or inventing their own software medium. Either way Nintendo is here to stay, too original, it is a shame about Sega though:(

Fierce Deity
06-04-2007, 09:48 PM
It's kind of good that happened. If Nintendo didn't have any rivals, they might have just gotten far worse, and Nintendo-Sony would change like 200 dollars for a game, and they wouldn't have any competitors to tell them they are jackasses.

As for the N64 controller, I liked it. It was good. :P I still like it, but I say the GC controller is the best. 3rd best is the PSX/2 controller though.

Um, I'm fairly certain the PSX had stronger graphics capabilities than the N64, it was just wasted a lot of the time. I mean, look at Final Fantasy VIII. I didn't see anything that looked that great on Nintendo 64, but the Nintendo 64 Real-time graphics seemed to be better, mostly.

umiami80
06-04-2007, 09:56 PM
Um, I'm fairly certain the PSX had stronger graphics capabilities than the N64, it was just wasted a lot of the time. I mean, look at Final Fantasy VIII. I didn't see anything that looked that great on Nintendo 64, but the Nintendo 64 Real-time graphics seemed to be better, mostly.

No way, the N64 was a much more powerful system, just lacked the memory needed to take advantage.

Fierce Deity
06-04-2007, 10:08 PM
Well, then let me rephrase. The best graphics'd games on 64 looked worse than the best graphics'd ones on PSX.

umiami80
06-04-2007, 11:15 PM
Well, then let me rephrase. The best graphics'd games on 64 looked worse than the best graphics'd ones on PSX.

I again disagree. PS1 games simply don't render as well as N64 games.

Look at Perfect dark oh hell bond, PS1 cant do that.

Fierce Deity
06-05-2007, 03:01 AM
That's actually one of the only popular Nintendo 64 games I never played. Either way, I've seen really great PSX graphics, and I've seen really great N64 graphics, and it's pretty obvious that the PSX beats out the N64, and pretty easily too.

I'm just being honest, I'm not a playstation fanboy or anything. I love the N64, in fact, *cough*FierceDeity*cough*.... So, yeah... XD.

Iconoclast
06-05-2007, 04:38 PM
PSX had a weaker core and only a few widely-used graphics capabilities that the N64 did not support/use, as well as vice versa. N64 had x MB-limited texture caches and used low-resolution graphics. PSX I think had a native resolution of 640x480, while N64's was 320x240, which is actually pretty low for a 3-D gaming console, but it still supported motion blur via 32-bit textures and all that.

Klendathu
06-05-2007, 04:53 PM
PSX had a weaker core and only a few widely-used graphics capabilities that the N64 did not support/use, as well as vice versa. N64 had x MB-limited texture caches and used low-resolution graphics. PSX I think had a native resolution of 640x480, while N64's was 320x240, which is actually pretty low for a 3-D gaming console, but it still supported motion blur via 32-bit textures and all that.

And with all that fancy talk, neither had Blast Processing.

cherko
06-05-2007, 05:53 PM
I played FFVIII. Squall looked like a walking black stick with spots of white. The FMV's where nice though. Is that what a game's s'posed to be like?

Well, graphics don't really matter to me. I played Twilight Princess for the Wii, and it looked like Ocarina of Time to me.

recab2
06-10-2007, 12:18 PM
The n64's graphics were much sharper and smoother and less granulated than the PSX's graphisc, hower the PSX had more complex objects and more polygons and better animations.

Iconoclast
06-10-2007, 12:21 PM
Animations and polyhedron counts were not universally greater, and no objects of visually complex objects exist in comparison to the N64.

Polyhedron vertex count did increase, however, and textures could be greater than 320x240 pixels for higher resolution graphics.

cherko
06-10-2007, 12:24 PM
Why don't you just show them one of those images you posted when you were trying to explain to me why Majora's Mask was better than Ocarina of Time. I doubt I've seen anything like that on the PSX.

Iconoclast
06-10-2007, 12:53 PM
Well, that only shows better graphics than OOT, not gameplay, which I also thought was better. Hell, I could beat all the temples in OOT when I was 7. I kept getting stuck in terms of strategy on MM when I was 12.

Anyway, some screenshots in general (not just MM).

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/Bomberman64Usnap0025.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/BM11.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/BM05.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/BM03.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/SUPERMARIO6401.png
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/Banjo-TooieUsnap0000.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/ElectricThrust.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/GreatFairysSwordSpinAttack.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/GoldenBlow.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/MajorasMaskConfrontation.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/SMASHBROTHERS-0.jpg

Okay, that last one was a joke (:D), but still, anything involving extremist alpha or motion blur effects is not doable on the PSX. Frame buffer (see Mario 64 and Banjo-Tooie screenshots) effects are also unsupported on PSX. Screenshots like that last one with SSB I think can be done on PSX.

cherko
06-10-2007, 01:08 PM
Beautiful. Thank you.

Honestly, I never gave MM a fair chance because there was something wrong with the cartridge and the game would sometimes crash, this was especially annoying when I had saved at owl statues. Because of this, I never got further than to the second dungeon.

I refuse to buy another copy of the game simply because the first cartridge was defunctional and ever since I have been taking revenge on the gaming industry by downloading loads of games illegally. I'm gonna finish MM some day, on an emulator, but I need a gamepad.

Iconoclast
06-10-2007, 01:16 PM
Hm...damaged cartridge data, MM is one of those larger games, more easily to lose chunks of data resulting in crashes. It only happened to me a couple times, guess it varies pretty well.

Ah, well. In two or maybe three ways, when I look back to memories, I think inwardly I do like OOT better. It's been a long time since I've enjoyed playing either.

cherko
06-10-2007, 01:41 PM
I do remember MM as being somewhat harder than OoT, even if I only played part of that game. However, it lacked the epic feel of previous Zelda games (I doubt that would have changed later on)

Majora_younglink
06-10-2007, 04:40 PM
I do remember MM as being somewhat harder than OoT, even if I only played part of that game. However, it lacked the epic feel of previous Zelda games (I doubt that would have changed later on)

It doesn't change, but MM is a different style imao. I played and beat the game to like 95% completion. (I NEVER ****ing get those last pieces of heart unless I look in the strategy guide and I always refuse to buy strategy guides.) It does however have a strategic kind of feel which isn't really seen in most of the games, I mean I never even though of using insignificant thing like sticks from a monster drop and a torch I though that was just used to keep the place illuminated for uses such as burning down webs that were in the way...

Iconoclast
06-10-2007, 05:02 PM
For the first part, Majora, duh.

For the second part, last sentence, that's only used in OOT when you're in the Deku Tree basement level.

Majora_younglink
06-10-2007, 05:07 PM
For the first part, Majora, duh.

For the second part, last sentence, that's only used in OOT when you're in the Deku Tree basement level.

Really? I never remembered that... Maybe it was a lot more obvious puzzle. All I know is that I was the angriest at OoT when i had to fight Shadow link and used all 3 fairies killing him. (Yes, I know the magic technique such as the fire could have helped but I was to frustrated to think properly. And most intellectually challenged with MM on some dungeons, I sometimes replayed a dungeon three times just to figure out what I had to do...

Iconoclast
06-10-2007, 05:22 PM
Dark Link, I was just so confused at.

You either whipped his *** so easily, or it would take you forever to hit him even once. So I figured, if all else fails (he can't mirror the Megaton Hammer), use Din's Fire.

And yeah, those dungeons had a lot more strategy and stumped me more than the Zelda Ocarina of Time temples and dungeons.

Felliko
06-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Good read for me one of the reason i dont like nintendo is that they want to make money out of us the new consoles the wii and n-ds are all protfitable and that sucks beacuase the wii cant even play online games damn it.
also they keep milking the same old franchises over and over yeah zelda and mario were good back in the day we need some new stuff now us who grow up playing mario's and bought games for our nes and snes and made what nintendo is today arent kids anymore so we want some more mature games and new IP's.

i have own all nintendo systems even the game cube but right now im really hating how nintendo is doing things so i dont plan to buy the wii or n-ds or anything related to nintendo.

Majora_younglink
06-10-2007, 06:59 PM
Good read for me one of the reason i dont like nintendo is that they want to make money out of us the new consoles the wii and n-ds are all protfitable and that sucks beacuase the wii cant even play online games damn it.
also they keep milking the same old franchises over and over yeah zelda and mario were good back in the day we need some new stuff now us who grow up playing mario's and bought games for our nes and snes and made what nintendo is today arent kids anymore so we want some more mature games and new IP's.

i have own all nintendo systems even the game cube but right now im really hating how nintendo is doing things so i dont plan to buy the wii or n-ds or anything related to nintendo.

Ermm... You must be ignorant or just hating Nintendo then... Dude, Brawl for one will be on internet. They've announced this and I know a few others will most likely be online games to such as Metroid (Which they've shown is possible to do already with the DS game) Just because they skipped a generation of system for intenet games doesn't mean they will never do it... Hell, the Wii itself has access to the internet itself...

How are they milking them? Sure they're re-using charie but who the **** cares? If its good, its good. If you say TP wasn't one the best games ever I will stab you! XD j/k But honestly if they can pull it off well as they've done time and time again no one can complain. If you don't like it buy one of the other original games like Tales of Symphonia a quality RPG on the gamecube or Fire Emblem maybe each with different charies...

Why? Whats so good about M games anyway? What we need sex and blood in our games? I really don't care for such thing and thats why I like Nintendo. They go for quality over the mundane and over done. I could care less how much sex is in GTA but I instead care about how much fun I'm having in beating TP... I don't really care about the rating of a game if its good its good. BTW Resident Evil 4 an awesome game came out originally for the Gamecube and it was rated M...

Come up with legitimate facts not opinions before you post thing bateful toward a company again please... I'm not a rabid fanboy or anything but I can't take such one sided hate...

cherko
06-11-2007, 06:10 AM
Good read for me one of the reason i dont like nintendo is that they want to make money out of us the new consoles the wii and n-ds are all protfitable and that sucks beacuase the wii cant even play online games damn it.
also they keep milking the same old franchises over and over yeah zelda and mario were good back in the day we need some new stuff now us who grow up playing mario's and bought games for our nes and snes and made what nintendo is today arent kids anymore so we want some more mature games and new IP's.

So adults want sex and violence huh? No, I doubt it'd make any difference whatsoever to a dedicated gamer. The ones that want sex and violence are either preteens or stupid teenagers.

If you say TP wasn't one the best games ever I will stab you!

Twilight Princess was absolutely horrible. Worst Zelda game I have ever played, though I haven't played Wind Waker or the Zelda games for CD-i.

Although I didn't play Majora's Mask until the end, not even halfway through, I got this impression that there was a big focus on mini-games, side quests and such trivial things, although nice it detracts from the epic feeling a Zelda game is supposed to have.

Majora_younglink
06-11-2007, 06:50 AM
Twilight Princess was absolutely horrible. Worst Zelda game I have ever played, though I haven't played Wind Waker or the Zelda games for CD-i.

Although I didn't play Majora's Mask until the end, not even halfway through, I got this impression that there was a big focus on mini-games, side quests and such trivial things, although nice it detracts from the epic feeling a Zelda game is supposed to have.

If you read a bit past that I was j/k. It all depends on taste, personally I liked TP but I guess some people didn't... If you don't like it good, is better to have differences in opinion otherwise all games would be the same.

Systemeth
06-26-2007, 06:21 PM
Dark Link, I was just so confused at.

You either whipped his *** so easily, or it would take you forever to hit him even once. So I figured, if all else fails (he can't mirror the Megaton Hammer), use Din's Fire.

And yeah, those dungeons had a lot more strategy and stumped me more than the Zelda Ocarina of Time temples and dungeons.

He can't mirror the Big Goron Sword either. :devil:
Also if you don't Z Target him he's ungodly easy.

But then it's not really even a swordfight.

howard8546
12-16-2008, 01:00 PM
they should have never droped sony

Iceman
12-16-2008, 05:53 PM
they should have never droped sony
Bumping a thread over a year old?...nice.

I lol'd at all those old arguments though. :D

jazzman
06-27-2009, 12:08 AM
both systems were great i prefer N64 tho

GameGeeks
06-27-2009, 12:14 AM
Please don't bump dead threads. It's against the rules. Could be get a lock on this?